It is currently Thu May 09, 2024 10:10 am

View unanswered posts | View active topics


Board index » Buffalo Sabres Hockey » Sabres Hockey

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]

Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 1
  [ 8 posts ] 
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
PuckSniperPensel
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:57 am 
Offline
Page Side
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:22 pm
Posts: 6537
Here's a link to the article on WGR:

http://www.wgr550.com/Forbes-ranks-Sabres/5659939

Quote:
Traditional hockey market? Check.

Strong-spending fan base? Check.

One of the top businesses in the league? You might be surprised.

Forbes.com has posted its annual evaluations of NHL franchises, and the Buffalo Sabres are not near the top of the league. In fact, they aren't all-that-close to the middle.

Buffalo fits right below Carolina and St. Louis, and right above Edmonton and Columbus, showing up at No. 23 in the league at $170 million. It's actually a one-percent improvement from 2008-09's rankings, but that's nothing compared to the Chicago Blackhawks, who jumped a league-best 26 percent. That's likely due to the team's success and decision to put their games back on television.

The Sabres have an operating income of $79 million, and posted a negative $5.2 million in operating income, which is categorized as "Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization." Compare that with the league-best Leafs ($78.9 million) and Canadiens ($31.3 million), and it looks rough. Compare it with the league-worst Coyotes (negative $18.5) and Panthers (negative $13.6), and it's not as rough. Buffalo is in the league's Top Ten in debt/value ratio.

The report says the league is coming off its best money year in the last 12, with a $6.1 million profit. It credits the success in the recession to the revival of big markets and the entrance of some big-name corporate sponsors. For a specific look at the Sabres report, which has been on a steady rise, click here. To read the rest of the league report, head here.


Last year, they posted a negative 5.2 million in operating income... and that's before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization.

That's troubling news to me.

_________________
Wheelhouse
Top
 Profile  
 
PuckSniperPensel
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:07 pm 
Offline
Page Side
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:22 pm
Posts: 6537
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/31/hoc ... _Rank.html

Here's the rankings of all franchises. Dallas has done surprisingly well.

_________________
Wheelhouse
Top
 Profile  
 
Sk8haggard9
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:08 pm 
Offline
Face-Off Specialist
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:31 am
Posts: 627
Location: Hamburg, N.Y.
Big ol' Tommy G really needs the playoffs this year doesn't he?
Top
 Profile  
 
slesh
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:23 pm 
Offline
Franchise Defenseman

Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:25 pm
Posts: 2419
Location: Driving Ms. Daisy, from behind!
Well, bare in mind, this valuation has the inclusion of the 92 million for purchasing the team and looks at value grade of product for a 10 yr P & L with depreciation to achieve an ROI. My question would be, what time frame was Tommy looking at to break even upon purchasing the team?

If he wanted an early ROI to achieve balance with the purchase price of the team, he should be fielding talent that wins consistenty in order to achieve higher numbers for the Brand (Brand, i.e. Buffal Sabres), Playoff revenue, a larger TV share due to continued success (more nationally televised games) and further. Oh, and lets not forget, he should be investing and encouraging others to invest in the Buffalo/Niagara region in industrial, commercial business to draw people to the area, thereby increasing the fan base over an assumptive determined amount of time. I think he has done very little to none of these things, You reap what you sow so they say.

Also, since he does not own the Arena, he is losing further revenue streams from other venues held at the facility, although, admittedly, he did not incurr the cost of purchasing the Arena, which may or may not have added or negated the current debt to equity ratio. Anyone have the numbers on what the current owners of the Arena (City of Buffalo, Erie County and State of New York) are taking in and what their revenue sharing percentages are?

_________________
Lord Stanley's Cup is what its all about.
Mr. Pegula, your destiny awaits you sir.


Last edited by slesh on Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
Los9090
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:01 pm 
Offline
Superstar Goalie
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:35 pm
Posts: 4707
Location: Glenville, NY
Some paragraph breaks would be nice there Slesh

_________________
"...they came down into the stands and asked if I knew how to do play by play. I said...No. But. I'll take a shot at it if you want".- Rick Jeanneret
Top
 Profile  
 
PuckSniperPensel
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:53 pm 
Offline
Page Side
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:22 pm
Posts: 6537
We aren't talking about ROI though, Slesh. We're talking about yearly losses, despite being one of the better franchises in terms of fan support, ticket sales, and TV ratings.

You can argue that ROI makes a franchise a commodity even though they lose money each year because you boost the overall value of the organization. The problem with that is, each one of your owners is looking to sell as soon as they increase the value.

That's not a healthy way to run a franchise.

Suppose the next owner looking to buy low and sell high doesn't do as well as Tommy G in terms of increasing the value of the franchise.

All of a sudden, you have an owner losing money each year in operations, AND in decreasing club value.

This is why the Sabres' long term viability is scary to me. Major changes need to happen in New York in order to help Buffalo start recovering as a city.

All I can say is, I'm really happy the NHL prevented a franchise from moving to Hamilton.

_________________
Wheelhouse
Top
 Profile  
 
Squanto
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:54 pm 
Offline
Carlos Spicy-Wiener
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:31 am
Posts: 9240
Location: FAP TURBO
I'd love to sit down with a full and complete set of balance sheets and income statements from the Sabres. Yes, I know that it will never happen.

Frankly, I think that BTG shoots for a negative EBITDA with the Sabres. (EBITDA : Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization)

I'm pretty confident that they're playing normal accounting games to take paper loses, and take advantage of how commercial leasing works to take write downs on arena improvements.

The fact that revenues have steadily increased since 2003 is a good sign for me.
Top
 Profile  
 
slesh
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:52 pm 
Offline
Franchise Defenseman

Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:25 pm
Posts: 2419
Location: Driving Ms. Daisy, from behind!
PuckSniperPensel wrote:
We aren't talking about ROI though, Slesh. We're talking about yearly losses, despite being one of the better franchises in terms of fan support, ticket sales, and TV ratings.

You can argue that ROI makes a franchise a commodity even though they lose money each year because you boost the overall value of the organization. The problem with that is, each one of your owners is looking to sell as soon as they increase the value.

That's not a healthy way to run a franchise.

Suppose the next owner looking to buy low and sell high doesn't do as well as Tommy G in terms of increasing the value of the franchise.

All of a sudden, you have an owner losing money each year in operations, AND in decreasing club value.

This is why the Sabres' long term viability is scary to me. Major changes need to happen in New York in order to help Buffalo start recovering as a city.

All I can say is, I'm really happy the NHL prevented a franchise from moving to Hamilton.

Actually PSP, its all about the RRI/ROI. Every venture created is about an ROI, directly or indirectly (unless your the federal government of the United States). The Return on Investment can be long term or short term depending on the the investors exit strategy.

Choosing to sell the franchise is only 1 option to achieve this goal. Decreasing club value is performance based and plays into the key indicator for a successful venture. Risk Analysis and Risk Assessment. In this case both of these indicators are based upon the strategy initiated by the owner/investor of the franchise. Roll the dice on strategies that are new and not proven risk goes up, utilize existing strategies with proven track records of success and risk goes down. It truly is that simple.

I play in pro forma's all day long. Risk is the key in this day and age. The worth of this franchise is only relivent if your looking for short term gains, long term is really where its at in today's markets. You are correct on one thing, buy low, sell high. How then do you ever get a deal on a franchise? You don't, inflationary rates themselves do not permit the degree of return your looking for, therefore, it is an accurate statement to make that this is a longterm investment.

_________________
Lord Stanley's Cup is what its all about.
Mr. Pegula, your destiny awaits you sir.
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 1
  [ 8 posts ] 

Board index » Buffalo Sabres Hockey » Sabres Hockey

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron